tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post2024225993078219813..comments2024-03-14T11:50:14.761-04:00Comments on DarwinCatholic: A Race to the BottomDarwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-80421683974639598402008-03-11T12:23:00.000-04:002008-03-11T12:23:00.000-04:00You were 'right on' to respond, "No, it's not a 't...You were 'right on' to respond, "No, it's not a 'thought experiment', because it's not thoughtful."<BR/><BR/>Our nation, thanks be to God, is a democracy. The presidency gives neither a Hitler nor a Stalin the ability to do the evil deeds they did. The first principle is preservation of democracy and representative government.Katherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13687197922675722032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-960552091661670242008-02-13T13:26:00.000-05:002008-02-13T13:26:00.000-05:00I read over the thread you mentioned.It strikes me...I read over the thread you mentioned.<BR/><BR/>It strikes me that having that sort of approach to deleting comments you don't like also builds a great deal of distrust between readers and authors, and thus stiffles dialog. If, as in this case, the author is using deletion and modification to shape the overall comments thread to reflect his point, the reader is afraid to post any sort of comment, lest that comment be not merely deleted, but used against him to portray a false course of conversation.Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-86900799940798809512008-02-13T13:21:00.000-05:002008-02-13T13:21:00.000-05:00Returning back to that VN thread, I see that a con...Returning back to that VN thread, I see that a conversation between Henry and Blackadder is continuing, even though the initial context regarding the 10000 years of war was deleted.<BR/><BR/>I guess I'm a little peeved because I don't think anything I wrote was offensive or out of line. It strikes me that Mr. Karlson is just being what us simple and uneducated folk call chickenshit.<BR/><BR/>And I say that knowing there is a likelihood that Henry and the other VN contributers may read it. I know each contributer controls their own thread, but it seems to me their should be some sort of universal and reasonable policy concerning these things. There's no "right" to comment on a blog, but that doesn't mean that whatever a blogmaster does with his combox isn't rude - or worse.Rick Lugarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16957595491409017184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-1432790262709336462008-02-13T12:46:00.000-05:002008-02-13T12:46:00.000-05:00Heh, I was reminded of your experience today when ...Heh, I was reminded of your experience today when a similar thing happened to me. So get this.<BR/><BR/>Henry Karlson has a post up about a <A HREF="http://vox-nova.com/2008/02/12/john-mccain-music-video/" REL="nofollow">McCain music video</A>. I have to summarize the comment thread because a good number of posts have been deleted, so bear with me.<BR/><BR/>Henry made a statement something to the effect that Obama's support for abortion is not [directly] favoring the slaughter of babies, but favoring the ability of others to do so. (I get the distinction he is drawing, I just don't think it exonerates Obama in the least) He then went on to point out that McCain supports 10000 years of war (wars in which many children have died). I don't know if by equating the two he was trying to bring McCain down to Obama's level or raise Obama to McCain's level, nevertheless, I think he took a little too much liberty in claiming McCain supports 10000 years of war (presimably all wars, just and unjust).<BR/><BR/>Alexham commented that outside of unjust wars (which if that is Henry's issue, he should state it as such) that the death of children in war is far from that of abortion [morally speaking].<BR/><BR/>Henry replied that Alexham is not pro-life because unjust wars equal unjust killing - the same as abortion.<BR/><BR/>Alexham replied that Henry needs to take a remedial reading comprehension class.<BR/><BR/>I penned the following comment which ended up in moderation:<BR/><BR/><EM>Yeah, I think Henry needs to re-read Alexham's comment. It seems to me that Alexham clearly understands that all killing in an unjust war is immoral. His point being that the unintentional killing of children that will most likely occur in a just war is on a different moral plane than abortion. <BR/> <BR/>Likewise, an example a little less likely to be misconstrued for argument's sake would be giving medications or vaccinations, or even utilizing automobile transportation. All those things are either morally neutral (or even a moral good in instances), yet it is reasonably foreseeable that all of those things will be the result in the death of some children - it indeed happens every day. That does not mean that we shouldn't do any of those things nor are they remotely close to the willful act of abortion. Nevertheless, as someone who favors giving medicine to children, has no objections to others giving certain vaccinations to their children, or favors transporting children in motor vehicles, I think it's quite a stretch to say I <EM> in some way, favor allowing at least some babies to being slaughtered</EM>. What I favor is moral goods that in spite of a foreseeable risk outweigh the risk. There is a huge moral difference between my examples and favoring an "abortion option". The deaths of innocents in a just war are morally akin to the former and far removed from the latter.</EM> <BR/><BR/>[When my comments moderation notice loaded the above exchange had been deleted and in its place were some snide back and forth comments between the two.]<BR/><BR/>I then posted the following comment, which went to moderation as well:<BR/><BR/><EM>What the heck is going on here? Why all the deletions? Y'all should only delete items that are obscene…leave it to us adults weed through the faulty arguments, rhetoric and snide comments…we are capable of weighing their merit and determining who is out of line or being petty.</EM><BR/><BR/>Apparently both have been deleted, and since then Henry posted a soap box style comment covering the same ground, but the implication is that Alexham (and I?) have an incorrect view. All done by mischaracterization of the view that was put forth by Alexham (and myself?). <BR/><BR/><EM>When a war is unjust, then the killing in the war is equal to all unjust killing. We know some think “because war can be justified, it makes killing in war, even in an unjust war, less evil than abortion.” Not true. It’s like saying “since some killing can be justified, all killing is meaningless” and that should apply for abortion as well.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, the way people treat war could be applied to abortions. And has been. The logic of one becomes the logic of the other. Many treat abortion as justified because the fetus is an “invader.” One who is completely pro-life would see the evil in one and how it relates to the evil of the other. Many who claim to be pro-life, of course, will not see how the the same arguments are being used. They are anti-abortion, good. Personal reasons might even make them anti-abortion. But when will they be pro-life? Even the devil knows life begins at conception.</EM>Rick Lugarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16957595491409017184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-390226957471235292008-02-12T14:13:00.000-05:002008-02-12T14:13:00.000-05:00We come from varying backgrounds and carry diverse...<I>We come from varying backgrounds and carry diverse social outlooks, traversing a wide range of demographics and political sympathies.</I><BR/><BR/>They traverse a wide range from alexham (the "token conservative") to the rest of them on the far left wing.<BR/><BR/>They're a mile wide and an inch deep.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-66893589460677671032008-02-12T11:02:00.000-05:002008-02-12T11:02:00.000-05:00The Blackadder Says: Thanks for the compliment, Da...The Blackadder Says: <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the compliment, Darwin. For what it's worth, I've found your comments both here and at Vox Nova to be fairly insightful as well. <BR/><BR/>Also for what it's worth, I don't know if the partisanship/demagoguery to rational discourse ratio at Vox Nova is 3:1, but for the internet that's not a bad ratio.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-18449917261557899312008-02-12T10:42:00.000-05:002008-02-12T10:42:00.000-05:00IIRC, a person made a comment that they wished the...<I>IIRC, a person made a comment that they wished they hadn't once and I deleted that portion of the comment.</I><BR/><BR/>I hadn't known who did that, but I did appreciate it. ;-)Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-11974624538628434372008-02-12T10:21:00.000-05:002008-02-12T10:21:00.000-05:00I doubt anyone will ever be banned at Vox Nova. T...I doubt anyone will ever be banned at Vox Nova. That would require agreement. It has been attempted twice, and both times it has failed. Leaving the blog post owner in charge of their own comments has helped keep the peace among the blog members. It isn't really my place to tell Henry how to handle his threads. While I didn't delete your comments, a member of the blog other than Henry may have once you gave the request. I debated doing so once you made your request, because I try to respect people's wishes with regard to their comments. For example, I will fix tags and grammar on request and then delete the request. IIRC, a person made a comment that they wished they hadn't once and I deleted that portion of the comment. I will commonly delete duplicate comments and whatnot on other people's threads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-5935203676579849212008-02-12T09:43:00.000-05:002008-02-12T09:43:00.000-05:00Man, you're gonna get yourself banned from another...<I>Man, you're gonna get yourself banned from another blog!</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, the Discovery Institute situation did spring to mind...Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-35852310460255887642008-02-11T23:45:00.000-05:002008-02-11T23:45:00.000-05:00Finished. A good idea that last. You will, I tru...Finished. A good idea that last. You will, I trust, be more mindful of Godwin's law than are certain parties?CMinorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07305306030099439903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-913780773071960942008-02-11T23:33:00.000-05:002008-02-11T23:33:00.000-05:00Man, you're gonna get yourself banned from another...Man, you're gonna get yourself banned from another blog!<BR/><BR/>While I've only had the time to skim your comments on the matter so far and not looked at the original at all, I'd say based on the excerpts you've provided that this "thought experiment" looks far less "thoughtful" than hystrionic and calculated to trigger emotionally charged reactions.CMinorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07305306030099439903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-14859193082726883302008-02-11T22:17:00.000-05:002008-02-11T22:17:00.000-05:00While I'm on a fairness kick, I should add that al...While I'm on a fairness kick, I should add that although I of course prefer the few right leaning authors on VN, several of those I seldom agree with (Katrina, Policratus and Michael Iafrate, if memory serves) have very unequivocally stated that they would not vote for any pro-choice candidate.Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-45423352378540948372008-02-11T22:05:00.000-05:002008-02-11T22:05:00.000-05:00Paul,Probably the sane approach... In regards to ...Paul,<BR/><BR/>Probably the sane approach... <BR/><BR/>In regards to good posts at Vox Nova: there are a couple posters there that I think are usually sound and insightful. Personally, I've found just about anything by <A HREF="http://vox-nova.com/category/Blackadder/" REL="nofollow">Blackadder to be interesting, right, or both</A>. <BR/><BR/>Which I figured I should mention just because I have a tendency to call things our for blame more often than for praise.Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-23536532408172553682008-02-11T21:58:00.000-05:002008-02-11T21:58:00.000-05:00My view: life's too short to read Vox Nova. What...My view: life's too short to read Vox Nova. <BR/><BR/>What I've read about it here and on Jay's blog and elsewhere convince me that the good there only serves to give cover and draw an audience so that "Catholic" pro-aborts can sow confusion and try to convince people that it's OK for a Catholic to vote for pro-abortion Democrats.<BR/><BR/>I haven't heard anything about the good posts that make them sound so attractive as to be worth wading through the crap I've seen quoted from there.<BR/><BR/>The point of view of being an apologist for pro-abortion politicians is inconsistent with the Catholic faith, and a good Catholic blog wouldn't be willing to accomodate, let alone feature, such viewpoints.<BR/><BR/>They're free to delete any comments that don't please them from their blog. They won't be deleting any of mine.Sir Galen of Bristolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14249011691189216258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-89635621071038700142008-02-11T21:38:00.000-05:002008-02-11T21:38:00.000-05:00I am surprised that your comments were deleted; it...I am surprised that your comments were deleted; it was pretty tame by Vox Nova standards. It's Henry's post, but his response appeared heavy-handed and self-serious to me. I guess I'm less sympathetic, though, to the 'thought' experiment because the designated outcomes it was intended to provoke don't appeal to me.JHBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04748195440226997893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-49753360824320288272008-02-11T21:09:00.000-05:002008-02-11T21:09:00.000-05:00Good post. A blog belongs to its owners, but when...Good post. A blog belongs to its owners, but when a blog opens discussion to combox comments wise owners will only delete comments that offend gravely against civility. One of the main purposes of comboxes is to subject ideas to robust analysis and debate. Too heavy a hand on the delete button and the debate is neutered.<BR/><BR/>I agree that attempting to comment on the American political scene by calling up the shades of Hitler and Stalin from the nether regions was very ill-conceived. It detracted from any point that Mr. Karlson was attempting to make.<BR/><BR/>I was shocked that your comments were deleted since in the Vox Nova context your comments have invariably been moderate and free of the partisan rancor that afflicts so many of the combox participants on that blog, myself on occasion included.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-92229008112263821492008-02-11T20:46:00.000-05:002008-02-11T20:46:00.000-05:00Darwin,I stopped reading Vox-Nova about a month ag...Darwin,<BR/><BR/>I stopped reading Vox-Nova about a month ago because of actions like that. I would enjoy seeing more of your commentary here.<BR/><BR/>-j.Sardonicushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09614057543947120116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-32600477276675211112008-02-11T20:29:00.000-05:002008-02-11T20:29:00.000-05:00First, I admit to reading only the first portion o...First, I admit to reading only the first portion of this post, and skimming the rest.<BR/><BR/>Emily Post would have had a "hay day" with blogosphere etiquette.<BR/><BR/>I for one will vote on principle, not expediency. Ron Paul as a write in, or a third party. First, pro-life. Second, vote against incumbents whenever possible. Vote the bums out!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com