tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post2084462148114496261..comments2024-03-14T11:50:14.761-04:00Comments on DarwinCatholic: Hiding The Truth is not PastoralDarwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-51810461652552919802018-05-11T12:18:32.634-04:002018-05-11T12:18:32.634-04:00TN Papist,
I don't know if I'd say that i...TN Papist,<br /><br />I don't know if I'd say that it's always an occasion of sin, but it certainly could be, and if someone was going to do it I think he would have to be very clear on why and what moral ground rules he was going to set in order to avoid making it an occasion of sin.Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-11953966873886051542018-05-11T03:16:17.308-04:002018-05-11T03:16:17.308-04:00"indeed there is nothing immoral about sharin..."indeed there is nothing immoral about sharing a roof with someone who you love but are not able to sleep with." If by love you include physical attraction, isn't living living with someone it's illicit to sleep with arguably a proximate occasion of sin (if not for actually committing physical acts, but also fantasizing in a moment of weakness), and thus a grave/mortal sin by itself? TN Papisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16827658848108148332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-78366329801718735382018-02-13T02:35:07.236-05:002018-02-13T02:35:07.236-05:00"taking cues from one generation is unwise&qu..."taking cues from one generation is unwise"<br /><br />A good point. I'll add that US culture is not quite the same as the whole of Western world. In my Middle European background, I can discern quite a difference from the prevalent US attitudes. I can only go by my gut feelings as I have no scientific resource (and I may not accurately represent the Millennial generation here), but Middle Europeans are less accepting of same sex relationships, are much more accepting of nudity and don't make such an exception to adulterous relationships compared to Americans. The Church's message has slightly different barriers to overcome in each cultural subgroup, and worldwide, there are of course even more diverse opinions the Church can't and shouldn't always accomodate.Agnesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-79411787688151979012018-02-12T11:11:15.844-05:002018-02-12T11:11:15.844-05:00Marvelous essay. I would just add that taking cues...Marvelous essay. I would just add that taking cues from one generation is unwise. The millenial acceptance of same-sex relationships is part of their overall relaxed attitudes towards any sex that is not adultery. Not, of course, that they share the same understanding of what the Church means by it. Following Mark's logic here, we should be prepared to bless hook-ups, too. <br /><br />http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-millennials-sex-attitudes-20150508-story.htmlDPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12249117106906577345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-8999700550919970862018-02-12T00:40:38.637-05:002018-02-12T00:40:38.637-05:00The other thing that strikes me about Shea's p...The other thing that strikes me about Shea's piece isn't really about it's substance. Mark is a very, very tribal thinker. and it seems to me that much of what drives this piece is a line of thinking that jumps from <br /><br />1) He really doesn't like (and recognizes real lack of charity) some of the louder critics of people like Cardinal Marx and Fr. James Martin <br /><br />to<br /><br />2) Therefore Marx and Martin must somehow be right <br /><br />However, that doesn't follow. It can both be the case that some of Marx's critics are wrong and/or uncharitable and also that Marx's suggestion is really lousy one which shows little serious regard for Church teaching.Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-79424709973532034242018-02-12T00:36:44.170-05:002018-02-12T00:36:44.170-05:00It is also a secular interpretation of the word &q...<i>It is also a secular interpretation of the word "blessing" (give one's blessing to something, particularly to a marriage) that they are trying to superpone over the Church's meaning. Blessing in the religious meaning of the word can only come from God.</i><br /><br />This strikes me as a really importation point Agnes brings up. When the Church recognizes a couple as having married (the couple are actually the ones performing the sacrament through the vows, so it's not as if the Church confers marriage on them) this is not some sort of award or recognition that their relationship is great or that they are the sort of people others should emulate. <br /><br />God chose marriage, the joining of a man and woman together into a family with the intent to produce children, as a sacrament, a way for his grace to come to us. A valid marriage is thus a channel of grace to people whether they're particularly good or admirable people or not. It's not an achievement award. And relationships other than a marriage simply can't be the matter for a sacrament. Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-17524344176581935852018-02-11T23:21:02.033-05:002018-02-11T23:21:02.033-05:00Funny how Mark used to say "tolerance is not ...Funny how Mark used to say "tolerance is not enough; you. must. approve." like it was a bad thing.<br /><br />If it makes sense to bless gay unions, wouldn't we also use that for weddings where the couple intends to be "childfree" or have been married previously or want to keep divorce as an option - but also want a church wedding? Then some people could have the sacrament but we could keep the rest happy by blessing whatever form they want their relationship to take. After all, contraception and divorce are done deals for millennials too, right? Then, since you can receive the Anointing of the Sick if you're going in for surgery, we could have a not-really-the-sacrament blessing before abortive surgery or sterilizations. So many ways to accompany people! None of which give any clear path back to the freedom of truth. Annanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-56283220859512221692018-02-11T17:26:32.448-05:002018-02-11T17:26:32.448-05:00"Put bluntly, if they do not want some kind o..."Put bluntly, if they do not want some kind of blessing on gay people, would they prefer the Church devise a curse for them?"<br /><br />This is so manipulative. Firstly, because of the forced false dichotomy (if we don't bless them it means we are cursing them), and also, becacuse the question wasn't about accepting gay people but about blessing their lifestyle as gay couples. Since the Church's teaching is that gay people may not form couple relationships with each other, they can't affirm those relationships. <br />It is also a secular interpretation of the word "blessing" (give one's blessing to something, particularly to a marriage) that they are trying to superpone over the Church's meaning. Blessing in the religious meaning of the word can only come from God. If the thing is against God's law, God won't bless it and the Church has no business issue a blessing, seemingly from God, in her own name. It's a sort of a reverse of Balaam's story who was asked to curse Israel but said a blessing according to what God ordered him to say.<br /><br /><br />Agnesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-53852400172178658932018-02-10T19:46:58.188-05:002018-02-10T19:46:58.188-05:00It also betrays those who have paid for speaking t...It also betrays those who have paid for speaking the truth, and helps silence those who recognize the truth but keep silent out of fear-- which makes it <i>much</i> easier to lie to those who simply don't know. Nobody who isn't willing to have their lives, and the lives of those they care about, destroyed will dare speak the truth. Foxfierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10161683096247890834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-17469573960647525572018-02-10T16:14:03.598-05:002018-02-10T16:14:03.598-05:00And as He said to the woman caught in adultery: &q...And as He said to the woman caught in adultery: "Neither do I condemn you. *Go and sin no more*." He *lovingly* called her to change her life... to conversion.<br /><br />I fully support accompaniment, but accompaniment does not mean endorsement, which a blessing absolutely would. It's completely possible for me to walk with someone who has same-sex attraction without condemning *or* enabling/encouraging.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091653573582292028noreply@blogger.com