tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post299388337755733854..comments2024-03-28T17:53:43.541-04:00Comments on DarwinCatholic: Low IQ or Low Motivation?Darwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-3234385928228715202012-10-08T05:28:53.828-04:002012-10-08T05:28:53.828-04:00In recent decades while aggregate enrollment at no...In recent decades while aggregate enrollment at non-elite institutions has increased graduation rates have steadily declined. Is there a relationship? As enrollment growth is the proportion of below the mean growing faster than those above?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17552546482049642714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-58584526153909021072012-09-28T23:43:39.839-04:002012-09-28T23:43:39.839-04:00Isn't the "motivated to perform tedious t...Isn't the "motivated to perform tedious tasks for low reward" how the school system trains individuals to be "successful" as cogs in a post-industrial-revolution society? Some homeschool proponents writing the history of US compulsory education make a bit of that argument.<br /><br />Bearing, thank you for pointing out that "success" depends on your environment, and that it's only worth delaying gratification if you have some guarantee it won't all be stolen in the interim. Hmmm... mandamumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-54741870591159557082012-09-28T15:43:21.483-04:002012-09-28T15:43:21.483-04:00The grim thing is this motivation to perform tedio...The grim thing is this motivation to perform tedious tasks for low reward is itself a partly heritable quality of our personalities.Benjamin I. Espen.http://www.benespen.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-76483701360703893972012-09-28T13:11:57.169-04:002012-09-28T13:11:57.169-04:00Then perhaps a real test of future success would b...Then perhaps a real test of future success would be an MQ?MacBeth Derhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10412194989845229808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-49721267187303230542012-09-28T12:58:14.101-04:002012-09-28T12:58:14.101-04:00For some reason I am reminded of Beatrix Potter...For some reason I am reminded of Beatrix Potter's sparrows, who, when Peter Rabbit is caught in a snare with farmer McGregor hot on his heels, "implored him to exert himself."<br />Clarehttp://babesinbabylon.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-87970144686773923352012-09-28T12:55:05.048-04:002012-09-28T12:55:05.048-04:00Slightly related thought:
I saw something not too ...Slightly related thought:<br />I saw something not too long ago remarking about the difference in language used about low-income schools in the 60s and now. Basically back in the 60s, the schools were described in a positive manner as rescuing students from dead-end families and giving children their only opportunity for success. Now schools are described in a negative manner as failing the students and trapping families into a system without a chance of success.<br /><br />Essentially these are the same kids in the same schools. Before it was the fault of the families and now it is the fault of the schools. Truthfully it is a little of both. <br /><br />I think it is very likely that motivation is mostly caught and not taught. Students who have low motivation families and go to schools surrounded by other kids from low motivation families do not have much opportunity to catch that trait.Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12507330852895229468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-8045680331503466702012-09-28T12:24:48.297-04:002012-09-28T12:24:48.297-04:00...but they have stopped preaching these habits to...<i>...but they have stopped preaching these habits to others</i><br /><br />Yeah, I think part of it is the shaming sort of tone that is often used when people talk about class privilege. <br /><br /> I think a lot of people are reasonably shy about attributing their own successes to anything that smacks of "I am a better person." You may have a well-developed work ethic, attention to detail, all that sort of thing, but you have it in part (we think) because of coming from a group where all that is highly valued and expressly taught, because there is no pressing need to emphasize short-term survival, and because there is enough security to have a notion that if you save for later, it'll still be there when you want it.<br /><br />I think I subscribe to the notion that certain traits are adapted for success in certain environments. People run into problems when they are well-adapted to succeed in one environment (by the definition of "success" in that environment) and then they try to make their way in another. I am not trying to draw a relativistic equivalence between one kind of success and another -- I certainly prefer a particular sort of success -- only to point out that a given individual may be performing quite well by the standards of one environment, because of innate skill that has been adapted to that environment, and then when moved into another environment his skills will not serve him as well.bearinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953735060133330755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-40273233774217592712012-09-28T11:08:39.826-04:002012-09-28T11:08:39.826-04:00Goes along with the marshmallow studies where the ...Goes along with the marshmallow studies where the kids who could put off eating the marshmallow for a greater return did better down the road because they already had the skill/trait to choose delayed gratification. So: skill or trait? I ask with Bearing, can it be taught? Is it more likely caught? Or is it innate?<br /><br />Al Kresta talked to someone on his radio show a while back who had written (I think it might have been in "The State of White America" but am not sure) about how people who do well in this society are still doing things like working hard and saving for a rainy day and so forth, but they have stopped preaching these habits to others. So you end up with a class system whereby you either learn such good habits at home (and succeed) or you don't learn them at all (and often don't succeed).mandamumnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-63575223449664647862012-09-28T10:13:14.464-04:002012-09-28T10:13:14.464-04:00I immediately thought of the book Willpower. It...I immediately thought of the book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0143122231" rel="nofollow">Willpower</a>. It's pretty good as pop science goes, and has some ideas about how to develop willpower (that is, if you're trying to develop your own). <br /><br />I wonder what's the state of "perseverance" research these days -- it seems to be correlated with so many good outcomes, and yet I'm assuming it's also highly confounded with other "good" traits. Can it be taught?bearinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953735060133330755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-22846241567894990362012-09-28T10:11:52.723-04:002012-09-28T10:11:52.723-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.bearinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07953735060133330755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-55194979707751796082012-09-28T08:49:42.054-04:002012-09-28T08:49:42.054-04:00So, what you're saying is, I should stop eatin...So, what you're saying is, I should stop eating the M&M's now? They aren't making me smarter?<br /><br />***<br /><br />Seriously, you point to a thorny problem. I know from experience that kids do learn that neglecting a painful school assignment is more pleasurable than doing the work. It's hard to find the balance between teaching kids to persevere on unpleasant tasks in hopes of longer-term rewards, versus overwhelming them to the point that they prefer to shirk, despite the consequences.Jennifer Fitzhttp://jenniferfitz.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com