tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post6066271928931012308..comments2024-03-14T11:50:14.761-04:00Comments on DarwinCatholic: Sharing Communion: Sometimes the Little Children are WrongDarwinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-72147376991159424242015-10-27T09:29:37.789-04:002015-10-27T09:29:37.789-04:00I agree that the anecdote sounds a little too prec...I agree that the anecdote sounds a little too precious to be true, or at least true as told, but since there's no way of knowing about the incident other than what's reported, and the main point was that one of the bishops apparently thought this was a story worth telling, I figured that I'd go ahead and discuss it as told.<br /><br />Also, for some reason, most of my post appears to have been trimmed off by blogger, so I've restored that and reposted it, so hopefully my own reaction is a little more clear now.Darwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08572976822786862149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-91180044278193580492015-10-24T01:32:52.735-04:002015-10-24T01:32:52.735-04:00OK, let's suppose that this story happened the...OK, let's suppose that this story happened the way it was told, and focus on the interpretations. I, like Darwin, disagree strongly with Mr. Shadle and agree with the traditionalist critic, although not with his style. I wonder, would Shadle say the same if the parents were guilty of some other sin? Ongoing adultery? Abortion? A doctor performing abortion? Cheating their employers of their rightful wages? Involved in illegal drug trade? Promoting polical parties with an Anti-Christian agenda? I am deliberately fanciful, of course. Would Shadle still say that our longing for all our fellow humans sharing Communion in the Eucharist with us should induce us to give the Sacrament to any sinner? My meaning is, of course, that the crux of the matter is, do we really believe that divorced-remarried people are in a state of sin that can't be absolved? If the Church cannot grant them absolution, she can't give themthe Eucharist either. This should be made clear. <br />There is also the deeper theological question: Shadle seems to think that receiving the Eucharist will heal these sinning people from their sin, and lead to methanoia and repentance, instead of the necessity of repentance first and absolution/restoring the communion with the Church thereafter. And that we encourage them to repentance if we say "you are OK and it's fine for you to share the Communion with us".<br />Also, I find the following quote an outrageous and manipulative lie:<br /><br />" And the boy’s intuition is entirely consistent with the church’s current practice concerning the divorced and remarried."<br /><br />This is NOT the Church's current practice but that which this liberalist lobby wantsit to change into.<br /><br />Regarding the conservative blog, I don't think crying "sacrilege" and "glorified cracker" is useful. It seems many people don't understand the actual teaching of the Church and are following their emotions.<br /> It's better to point out that the boy made a mistake, AND the religion teacher who prepared him for first communion failed to teach him 1. That those who are not in the state of grace CAN'T receive the Eucharist and it's a sacrilege if they are given it (what will he himself do if he later sins and needs absolution before Communion?) 2. That the Euchrist should be treated with veneration and immediately consumed if given into the hands; 3. ultimately, that he can't decide against Church authority who is sinner andwho isn't. And of course, that the whole occasion was about Jesus coming into his heart by himtaking part in His body - why on earth should he NOT receive Christ and give te Host away, even to his parents? The parents made the mistake of not explaining the situation to their son, and of not correcting their behavior; and the priest who gave him the Host failed to prevent the Eucharist from being used wrongly.Agnesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-48862388850031692922015-10-22T19:00:46.380-04:002015-10-22T19:00:46.380-04:00I was struck by the last sentence in Shadle's ...I was struck by the last sentence in Shadle's quote you have: "repentance and metanoia". The repentance didn't seem to occur here, though - or is it the repentance of the "mean controlling people who wouldn't share" that is referred to? Because I don't see any repentance in terms of those separated from communion by their own actions.... The longing - yes, that can lead to repentance. But if the longing just leads to taking a short-cut, you cheat repentance and just grab the thing you think you want.mandamumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13456664219186606851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-68254530300274224672015-10-22T16:48:26.404-04:002015-10-22T16:48:26.404-04:00I honestly can't imagine a 7 year old boy comi...I honestly can't imagine a 7 year old boy coming up with this all by himself without goading from the adults around him. This story doesn't pass the smell test.<br /><br />My father is not Catholic. He goes to Mass every week. It never once occurred to me during my entire childhood or since to break the Host into pieces to bring it to my father. Not once. I asked once why he didn't go to Communion and was given the honest and reasonable answer and that was that. Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13472686909226073213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-36387872705656224032015-10-22T12:59:13.042-04:002015-10-22T12:59:13.042-04:00The use of "Pharisee" always annoys me, ...The use of "Pharisee" always annoys me, and it does so even more forcefully here. The trouble with the Pharisees is not that they strictly adhered to the law per se, but that they fanatically observed legalities that had little to do with true worship or faith. A more apt comparison to the Pharisees would be if we strictly denied Communion to people who didn't have their shirt buttoned at least to the penultimate button. Denying Communion to those who are in a state of sin, and one that is rather forcefully and unambiguously declared so by the Lord, is nothing close to Phariseeism. Paul Zummohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01574775522802920843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-45788670831637759642015-10-22T12:42:08.687-04:002015-10-22T12:42:08.687-04:00This story is weird, and makes me think it never h...This story is weird, and makes me think it never happened. I don't know how first communions work in other countries, but I've always seen a whole group of first communicants go up for communion together and receive both the host and chalice. So the boy in question would have had to hold on to the host (or pocket it?), receive from the chalice, return to his parents, and then split it up for them. Then they would have had to accept it, whereas apparently they have been obediently refraining from the communion line, voluntarily. Alternatively, if the parents were standing right next to him, and he did this, one or either of them would have encouraged him to take his first communion.<br /><br />The story is just too perfect. It's a little boy at his first communion -- so much more dramatic than the more believable story of a kid sharing communion with his parents, who JUST stopped taking it themselves! All eyes are on him, yet he is able to avoid consuming the host. His parents are weirdly absent as role models, since (if they reject the church rules) they could just break the rules and go to communion, or (if they agree with the Church), they would not accept his gesture and would have had this conversation with him at home. Furthermore, he only breaks it in two, rather than three pieces, showing what a kindhearted, generous boy he is to actually give up his First Communion so his parents can, against their wishes, take communion. So it sounds, to me, like some or all of it is fake. <br /><br />There is something wrong and cloying about the tale, and apparently it is already 2nd-hand. I've witnessed many times that adults wishing to make a point will invent or exaggerate a story with a child protagonist. I think, more likely, maybe a little boy in a first communion class asked if he could share it with his parents. If that happens about once or twice a year in a diocese, this in itself could make for a good story. But an adult answering a kid's question isn't enough of a dramatic tale.Habndnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-58450442849487745432015-10-22T12:16:23.310-04:002015-10-22T12:16:23.310-04:00One of the problems is that this is not what '...One of the problems is that this is not what 'sensus fidei' is. <i>Sensus fidei</i> is the participation of the whole Church in the prophetic office of Christ: it is something we share together in sharing the faith. Pinning the label on a particular interpretation -- and we don't actually get "the boy's intuition" from the story, just someone's interpretation of it without much reason to think that it was actually what the boy was doing -- of an individual experience is merely rhetorical sleight of hand.Brandonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06698839146562734910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13522238.post-59304747255560903202015-10-22T11:34:06.818-04:002015-10-22T11:34:06.818-04:00I'm currently reading Austen Iverreigh's b...I'm currently reading Austen Iverreigh's biography of Pope Francis. There's an anecdote in the book about a friend of (then) Cardinal Bergoglio's who is an Anglican married to a Catholic woman. One day the guy's kids say to him "Dad, why do we go to a church that won't let you take communion?" When Bergoglio hears this story, he tears up and is obviously deeply moved. A couple of pages later the same guy comes to Bergoglio and says "hey, I'm thinking about becoming Catholic." And Bergoglio says "No, don't convert; we need people like you in the Anglican church." <br /><br />In the book all of this is presented in a positive light, but as with the story Darwin tells, my reaction was pretty negative. Frankly, I don't get the thought process involved. Josiah Neeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04991797256901556143noreply@blogger.com