We're in the midst of some serious wedding insanity -- three out-of-state weddings in three weekends, and this weekend's is MY BROTHER'S -- and Darwin is gone this week at a conference. There is advanced chaos at the house. Everything I do is done in the least efficient way possible. People have fevers. Single parenthood has worn me down to the extent that I'm ordering pizza and picking up burgers rather than face my kitchen. In marriage, the two become one flesh, but right now I feel like Darwin took my mind. I left my brain in San Francisco.
As Darwin was getting out the door to the airport, the girls were in tears, sobbing goodbye and clinging. This surprised me, as in the past I've tended to think myself as the one mainly inconvenienced by Daddy being gone. The ladies are becoming more aware, and it's touching. I found Julia's welcome-home card, written on pretty craft paper:
Dear Daddy,
I'm so glad you're back home. Please don't ever go away again. I missed you verry verry verry much.
Love, Julia
Later the card was cut up so the paper could be used for some project, but the sentiment stands, I'm sure.
In these few days without Darwin, as I've melted into a lame puddle of goo trying to wash all the laundry in the house and change the hotel reservations and see which orthodontist is covered by insurance (I am not ready to enter the world of children with orthodontic devices), the importance of a good father has been brought home to me again and again. My children are blessed to descend from several generations of good fathers on both sides of the family, and the legacy of those holy, vigilant men is seen in the way my husband and father and brothers interact with my children, an example of God "bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments" (Ex. 20:6).
But then I read about the epidemic of teens viewing porn, and my heart aches, not just for my own innocent children but for all those they will encounter in life who will be in thrall to this crushing sin. I know that all I can do for my children is to provide them with a good strong foundation to be able to avoid and withstand these sorts of assaults. Perhaps God's mercy to the thousandth generation is the gift to each generation to be able to confront the choices of adulthood with a self already oriented to what is good. That doesn't mean that every choice my girls (and my boy) make will be good -- God doesn't co-opt their free will, so neither can I -- but at least their wills will not be unduly warped or misaligned by the sins of previous generations.
I'm thrilled to think that in nine months my brother could be holding a child of his own. Then we'll get to see what the next generation of my family's fathers will be like. I think he could be a contender to start his own thousand-generation holiness dynasty.
Please pray for John and Gail this weekend, and for all family members discerning marriage.
The War of the Rohirrim
42 minutes ago
27 comments:
But pornography is good for society. Here is Scientific American, July 2011:
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"Perhaps the most serious accusation against pornography is that it incites sexual aggression. But not only do rape statistics suggest otherwise, some experts believe the consumption of pornography may actually reduce the desire to rape by offering a safe, private outlet for deviant sexual desires.
"“Rates of rapes and sexual assault in the U.S. are at their lowest levels since the 1960s,” says Christopher J. Ferguson, a professor of psychology and criminal justice at Texas A&M International University. The same goes for other countries: as access to pornography grew in once restrictive Japan, China and Denmark in the past 40 years, rape statistics plummeted. Within the U.S., the states with the least Internet access between 1980 and 2000—and therefore the least access to Internet pornography—experienced a 53 percent increase in rape incidence*, whereas the states with the most access experienced a 27 percent drop in the number of reported rapes, according to a paper published in 2006 by Anthony D’Amato, a law professor at Northwestern University.
"It is important to note that these associations are just that—associations. They do not prove that pornography is the cause of the observed crime reductions. Nevertheless, the trends “just don’t fit with the theory that rape and sexual assault are in part influenced by pornography,” Ferguson explains. “At this point I think we can say the evidence just isn’t there, and it is time to retire this belief.”"
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This doesn't mean that porn is good for any particular man, but all women should be greatful to live in a society where porn is widely available.
Joel
Ah, Joel...
As the piece itself admits, the data doesn't actually substantiate that porn is good for society. It mostly substantiates that affluent societies have more pleasures (good and bad) available to them, and that affluent societies tend to be less violent societies. On the actual impact of porn on sex crimes, it would be far more relevant if they'd done a study on whether porn users are less likely to commit sexual crimes than non-porn users.
However, for the everyday personal concerns related to a world awash in porn, the article isn't even looking at the relevant concern, which is: Does porn cause sexual alienation by causing men to spend much of their sexual lives in an isolated sexual fantasy world? The author of the article you quote seems to assume that the answer is yes, and that this might actually be helpful in the case of a small percentage of highly deviant individuals. There is, however, the much broader question of whether it ends up being damaging to ordinary people and their relationships, and the answer there is, very likely, yes.
http://nymag.com/news/features/70976/
I searched the NYM article for any links to actual studies, any citation of facts or evidence to support their thesis.
I found none.
Joel
True. But then, the article you posted didn't actually cite any relevant data either.
It was a personal experience based article that didn't pretend to be anything else, whereas the one you cited pretended to be data driven but then had to admit the data didn't prove anything.
Scientific proof of anything related to sexual behavior is damned hard to come by, though it would have helped if the NYM people had at least tried.
But it is a fact that rape incidence has declined while porn use has increased, not just in the US but worldwide. And while I acknowledge, as do all of the scientists who have studied this, that correlation does not equal causation, it is nonetheless a fact that all the evidence we have points away from porn being a "crushing sin" and towards it being a harmless diversion for the healthy and a safety valve for the deviant.
FULL DISCLOSURE: I use porn semi-regularly. My experience with it is nothing like the guys quoted in the NYM article. I have not hidden it from my girlfriend, and she shows none of the behaviors that the article says are becoming common among women (nor would I want her to). Basically, the Christian attitude towards porn makes no sense to either one of us, though perhaps this isn't surprising since we view the entire realm of Christian sexual ethics as (at its best) weird and irrelevant.
Joel
Joel, it does not surprise me that you find the Christian worldview weird and irrelevant, and that, given this frame of mind, you imagine that it's all good with you and the porn and the girlfriend and whatall. I realize that there's literally nothing anyone could say to persuade you that something might be worng (and that that something is evidenced by your numerous posts here, on this site,) so I'm not going to try. I will pray for you though, and especially for your girlfriend. I merely want to say, sincerely, that I thank you for leaving these comments, because they help to illustrate the gap between the Christian and secular worldviews, and the antipathy the latter has for the former. Too often people engage in fuzzy thinking, and imagine that the world "is all pretty good" without Christianity, and that there's virtually no difference between the Christian and secular views. You remind us that there are mighty important differences, and we do well to keep that in mind. My best to you.
Joel,
Of course, murder has gone down in all developed countries during the same time period and economic inequality has gone up, so we might want to also conclude that porn prevents murder but causes economic inequality.
Out of curiosity, does the nature the the industry that creates porn strike you as at all problematic in regards to consuming it, or do you figure that paying people to have sex on camera falls under a libertarian any-voluntary-transaction-is-okay theory?
"Basically, the Christian attitude towards porn makes no sense to either one of us, though perhaps this isn't surprising since we view the entire realm of Christian sexual ethics as (at its best) weird and irrelevant."
Just this evening I encountered a quote from A.J. Cain that sums this reaction: "“Only the shallowest mind can believe that in a great controversy, one side is mere folly”.
I, as a woman raising four women, am not grateful to live in a society where porn is widely available, though doubtless this ingratitude is born of my weird and irrelevant view on sexuality, which holds that even the women who exhibit themselves in pornography have an intrinsic dignity that raises them above the level of mere fantasy props -- not just because they are someone's daughters, wives, and mothers, but because they are made in the image and likeness of God, and are not to be used for gratification.
The wrongness of rape doesn't cancel out the wrongness of porn.
I'm sure there are many people who look at porn who are not full blown messes. Just like there are many people who use drugs who are not stealing to feed their addiction and destroying their families. This doesn't mean that drug use is healthy and a good idea. I think the same applies to porn and the culture that views sex primarily as a pleasurable pastime. While never a regular viewer of pornography, I didn't grow up with a healthy view of sexuality. I was very much immersed in the popular culture, and saw myself somewhat as a sex object. Since I have embraced the Christian view of sexuality not only in my actions within my marriage, but in my thoughts and views, I see a difference in my own moral "health" and wellbeing. I have more empathy for others and a clearer view of the collateral damage of sin. Like giving up junk food, turning your back on pornography will have an effect on your well being. You don't know how sick you were until you become well.
darwin, to answer your question about the porn industry: I feel sorry for porn actors, in exactly the same way that I feel sorry for checkout clerks at Walmart and those people who wear gorilla suits on street corners advertising the Pizza Hut lunch specials. It's a menial, degrading job, and I hope that those doing it move on to better things before long.
Everyone: the harm caused by porn is hypothetical, while the benefits are strongly suggested by evidence. Please keep that in mind when considering the difference between my worldview and yours. I subject my opinions to evidence and review - please do the same.
Joel
So we are just imagining the divorces with porn addiction sited as cause?
I'm so glad to hear about your objectivity, Joel. Here are some statistics from the Pink Cross, a group dedicated to helping former and current porn actors and actresses:
"At the 2003 meeting of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, a gathering of the nation’s divorce lawyers, attendees revealed that 58% of their divorces were a result of a spouse looking at excessive amounts of pornography online.
Child pornography is one of the fastest growing businesses online, and the content is becoming much worse. In 2008, Internet Watch Foundation found 1,536 individual child abuse domains.
Of 1351 pastors surveyed, 54% had viewed Internet pornography within the last year.
There are 4.2 million pornographic websites, 420 million pornographic web pages, and 68 million daily search engine requests.
50% of men and 20% of women in the church regularly view porn.
Worldwide pornography revenue in 2006 was $97.06 billion. Of that, approximately $13 billion was in the United States.
More than 11 million teens regularly view porn online.
The largest group viewing online pornography is ages 12 to 17.
Chlamydia and Gonorrhea among performers is 10x greater than that of LA County 20-24 year olds.
70% of sexually transmitted infections in the porn industry occur in females according to County of Los Angeles Public Health."
Sources for the statistics can be found at the link above.
Here is an article from the American Psychological Association on a study "suggesting that men charged with Internet child pornography offenses and those who commit hands-on child sex offenses are, in many cases, one and the same."
Would that sex-related jobs were only menial and degrading. They are not necessary. People need groceries, they don't need porn or phone sex or webcam girls, etc.
People love to defend selfish indulgence at the expense of damaged people performing for complex reasons, who need love, support and healing, not further leeching from their client base whinily defending their grubby lusts.
Since when did being a checker at Walmart become a degrading job. It's honest work. Perhaps not very well paid or stimulating, but I wouldn't have a problem with my daughters working there. I would hope it was a temporary job because I have higher hopes for them. But I would much rather them work there for minimum wage their whole lives then make six figures as a porn actresses.
Mrs. D, taking your evidence in the order cited:
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in porn is OK.
Child pornography is a crime and should remain so. Adults can freely choose to do work that others would find degrading, but children cannot freely make that choice.
Porn is popular worldwide.
Including among Christians.
The 2006 revenue stats are out of date - the porn industry is crashing nowadays because free porn is incredibly widespread.
Porn is popular among teens
- but I am skeptical that teens are really *the largest* group looking at it.
STD's are an occupational hazard in porn, which is why the industry has (FINALLY) embraced the use of condoms and regular testing. (A date for the LACPH figures would be nice.)
Joel
Working at Wal-Mart doesn't give you that dead-eyed, dissociated prostitute look. Porn "actors" and "models", on the other hand, do have to dissociate to survive. Wal-Mart employs people; the porn industry exploits, damages, assaults, and sometimes outright enslaves them.
So yeah, enjoy funding such things, while you stare at some chick who was molested for the first time when she was five and has never known safety or love, and who is probably in the process of killing herself with drugs.
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in porn is OK.
I've been looking at this line all day and I can't shake it. Is there any other topic to which this line of thinking might apply?
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in sleeping around is OK.
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in drinking too much is OK.
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in spending them into bankruptcy is OK.
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in staying out with the boys every night is OK.
Basically porn is not the problem but uncool wives are?
Joel,
Wait until you have a little daughter. Nobody can give you this information...you just have to experience it. Then, I would be willing to wager a large sum that you would pick the WalMart job for her anyday over the porn actress one.
I have three boys, and I am just sick that I will be raising them in this world of ubiquitous porn. I really want to give up sometimes. It seems futile to resist such a tidal wave of filth.
Banshee, it does no good to veer into the other end of stereotyping about women in that line of work, either. Part of acknowledging their equal humanity means also not falling into the trap of presuming all women in porn to be drug-abusing molested little girls lost.
And there are plenty of dead-eyed dissociators at Walmart, some of them drug using, too, as far as that goes.
Joel,
58% of divorces are caused by women unable to accept that their husband's interest in porn is OK.
If, as you claim, your beliefs are based on evidence, then you don't get to editorialize on whether women ought to object to their husbands getting their sexual satisfaction from porn rather than from themselves, you have to simply look at what the correlations are. Divorce is a social harm and if porn is cited as a contributing factor in a majority of divorces then clearly porn causes social harm. This is, in fact, far clearer and more direct evidence than what you've cited, which is a very loose correlation at best.
Darwin, does narrow zealotry cause social harm? Porn is a classic case in point, as the divorce stats make clear.
But your statement that the more porn => less rape correlation is "very loose" requires pushback. The fact is, those two trends have been observed together all over the world: whenever porn availability goes up, rape goes down. Everywhere. So:
1) You are actually telling us that this is coincidence? Really? It happens again and again, and you still say, "Coincidence"?
2) There's a simple and straightforward explanation as to why this is in fact causation: The safety valve effect of porn is real.
So tell me: what evidence would it take to convince you of this? Consider your answer carefully, because some researchers are probably looking into it right now, and you may rest assured that I will notify you when their results are published.
Joel
Mrs. D,
Not sure how I missed this earlier, but you wrote:
"The wrongness of rape doesn't cancel out the wrongness of porn."
Forgive me, but this statement illustrates why so many women today regard Christianity as inherently anti-feminist. Rape is much, much, much, much, MUCH, MUCH worse than porn. There is no comparison, none whatsoever. The fact that an intelligent person thoroughly steeped in Christian sexual ethics could write that sentence illustrates the shortcomings of said ethics.
Sorry, but there it is.
Joel
P.S. But don't worry: I'm not going to tell anyone that one of my Christian sparring partners wrote that. You can thank me later.
But don't worry: I'm not going to tell anyone that one of my Christian sparring partners wrote that. You can thank me later.
That is very kind of you, albeit rather condescending, but in fact nobody has disputed that rape is worse than porn. People are simply disputing your argument that because porn (supposedly) cuts down on the incidence of rape, it's a harmless and socially beneficial hobby.
Look at it this way. Suppose somebody told you that screaming misogynist insults at women is, for some men, a valuable safety valve that allows them to vent their anger at women without resorting to rape. You might well retort that whether the safety valve theory was true or not, screaming misogynist insults at women is harmful and wrong, and the fact that rape is worse doesn't make the insults okay.
And I might add, speaking as a woman, that I find it tremendously offensive and anti-feminist to suggest that rape happens because some poor deviant men are sexually frustrated, and if only they had porn to soothe their troubled souls, they would never dream of dehumanizing or harming a woman.
Men don't become rapists because they are sexually frustrated. It is within the power of any sane person to suffer extreme sexual frustration and not harm others. Men become rapists because they hate and/or dehumanize women.
"Men become rapists because they hate and/or dehumanize women."
Yes, absolutely. The question is, how do we handle these deviant and not sane men? Should we wait until they rape some woman or girl, and then put them in prison for 30 years and try to offer counseling to the victim? Or should we give them porn and let then release their demented fantasies in private?
Which is better?
Joel
Yes, absolutely. The question is, how do we handle these deviant and not sane men? Should we wait until they rape some woman or girl, and then put them in prison for 30 years and try to offer counseling to the victim? Or should we give them porn and let then release their demented fantasies in private?
Which is better?
Actually, that's not the question that's been under discussion, nor does the "offer porn to those deviants" solution accurately represent the position you've been holding here.
Even if we posit that the social effects of enforcing total unavailability of porn would be worse than the effects of not enforcing such a ban, that doesn't mean that actually using or making porn is morally good or even neutral. Just as, even if we take it that trying to enforce a ban on drugs causes more social harm than not doing so, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't encourage people not to use heroine or crystal meth.
On your data questions, I think I have some data that completely refutes the claims of your Scientific American piece, and I'll also post about what would constitute valid evidence, but I'll put that in a separate post later.
I look forward to your posting on porn, at which time we will continue this interesting debate.
But for the record let me point out that I never said using or creating porn was morally good, I said it was harmless for the healthy and a safety valve for the deviant - and I stand by that statement (with minor caveats).
Joel
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